Twin Oaks Community - racial-justice✊🏾

RET addressing the recent wave of pushback against Earthly Wilds BIPOC Community

Part_one_-_Land_Trust_Oi.pdf

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Part_three_-_RET_reply.pdf

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thank you for posting this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BV37Dcxj9s

BakermatVEVO

Bakermat - One Day (Vandaag) (Videoclip)

Convo b/t white and Black queer folks in cville Feb 21 https://www.transforming-futures.org/events

EVENTS | Site

EARTHLY WILDS COMMUNITY LAND REPARATIONS 101 PB RET 2/14/2026 Intro: This document is designed to provide clear, factual information about Earthly Wilds land reparations and address commonw misconceptions. It is intended as educational material to get everyone on the same page before the February 25 2026 community wide meeting. By sharing this information in advance, we hope to reduce repetition and allow the discussion to focus on next steps rather than re-explaining points that have already been addressed. (edited)

6:37 AM

Part 1: Why Land Reparations Matter in Twin Oaks Context Land reparations respond to centuries of land theft, exclusion, and dispossession experienced by Black, Indigenous, and other people of color through colonization, genocide, slavery, Jim Crow laws, redlining, and discriminatory land policies. Twin Oaks was founded during the back-to-the-land movement of the late 1960s and early 1970s, a time when predominantly white communities were able to acquire and steward land, meanwhile Black and Indigenous communities were actively blocked through violence, discrimination, and economic barriers. Like many white intentional communities from that period, Twin Oaks benefited from these white supremacist conditions, even while pursuing egalitarian ideals. Reparations acknowledge this history and take material steps to support healing of land-based racialized trauma, while providing BIPOC autonomy and sovereignty. Earthly Wilds exists to create BIPOC-led sovereign space as a form of repair, not as an internal expansion of Twin Oaks. Land reparations are not charity, gifts, or rewards. Framing reparations as “Twin Oaks giving away free land” misunderstands the purpose entirely. “Loans” Are Incompatible With Reparations. Loans preserve debt, leverage, and conditionality, reproducing the same power dynamics that reparations are meant to interrupt. Asking a BIPOC-centered reparations project to incur debt to access land already held by Twin Oaks maintains long-term institutional control and undermines sovereignty, autonomy, and economic freedom. While loans may be appropriate for internal expansion projects, they are incompatible with reparative justice. If the solution mirrors the systems that created the harm, it is not reparative.

6:38 AM

Part 2: Land, Policies, and Pushback It is valid for community members to feel attachment to “The Monacan Land” they have cared for, logged, or hiked. Labor matters, and history matters. At the same time, stewardship or emotional attachment does not create permanent entitlement, especially when the land was historically acquired through settler colonial systems that excluded Black and Indigenous people. Reparations expand who can steward the land while honoring existing relationships, not erasing them. Twin Oaks Forestry Crew work, hiking, and recreational access are respected and incorporated into shared stewardship and coordination plans. Concerns about the land remaining “undeveloped” are rooted in colonial thinking that equates human presence with ecological harm. For thousands of years, Black and Indigenous peoples, in Africa and here in North America, actively stewarded land, creating sustainable and hospitable landscapes. Low-impact habitation, ecological building, and regenerative practices continue that stewardship; they are not violations of ecological integrity. Arguments invoking “undeveloped” to block the community risk reproducing the same logic that excluded Indigenous peoples from ancestral lands. Some have expressed concern that differences in car use, personal income, property codes, or internal regulations could create friction with Twin Oakers. Earthly Wilds will have its own governance, policies, property codes, and norms, which will differ from Twin Oaks. It is important to note that Twin Oaks already neighbors people and other communities with vastly differing policies, and this diversity has long been tolerated. Sovereignty over land and community includes the right to define internal norms and practices while maintaining coordination and mutual respect with neighboring communities.

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6:39 AM

Part 3: Land Trust and Continuity Earthly Wilds Community will not “own” the land. “The Monacan Land” title will be placed into a legally binding Land Trust, which holds title for specific purposes: BIPOC-led communal living, reparative justice, and ecological stewardship. Earthly Wilds Community will be the current steward and beneficiary: members will live on, care for, and build sustainably on the land in alignment with the Trust’s purposes. The Trust ensures the land cannot be sold, privatized, or repurposed in ways that contradict its mission, even if Earthly Wilds dissolves. If Earthly Wilds dissolves or cannot continue stewardship, the Trust holds the land for a future BIPOC-led community with similar mission and values. If one cannot be found, land title reverts back to Twin Oaks again. This protects the land from privatization or misuse, making reparations durable and future-facing. Core principles written into the Trust include: land for BIPOC-led community, ecological stewardship (including sustainable habitation and regenerative practices), mission-aligned economic activity, identification of a successor group if needed, and continued Twin Oaks recreational access coordinated with forestry stewardship. BIPOC-centered community and land reparations have been openly discussed for six months. On August 20, 2025, RET hosted a full community meeting on “land reparations.” On August 21, an O&I was posted with details and an FAQ. On August 30, Earthly Wilds was publicly announced at the Communities Conference (video available at EarthlyWilds.com) Several additional O&Is have been posted about this topic since then, even an o&i by the previous Planners expressing tentative support. In January 2026, we posted two additional o&i papers, one further explaining the morality of “why” land reparations matter in the historical context of Twin Oaks, and another paper about “how” land reparations could be legally and logistically actualized here.

6:39 AM

Part 4: Renunciation We as RET do not support Marcel, her actions, or her statements around Earthly Wilds. We are furious at her attempts to thwart our work to create safer spaces for BIPOC in the Communities movement. We do not condone her actions and she is not acting at the request of any RET members. She is using our work for her personal gain. Conclusion By understanding the history, purpose, and structures of Earthly Wilds land reparations, we can enter the February 25 meeting informed, aligned, and ready to focus on how Twin Oaks can act in ways that honor both justice and shared stewardship. -RET

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thank you for posting this here. my reading comprehension is so much better when I'm not in ZK

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I ditto Lindsey!!

Earthly Wilds Community Layouts, Visualizations and Permaculture Plans PB Miles Rose 2/15/2025 By popular request, here's a sample of the visualizations, layouts and permaculture plans for Earthly Wilds Community! As an example, this scaled map layout is designed to demonstrate what one small single acre could hypothetically look like under Earthly Wilds stewardship, in proportion to the massive 60 acres of “The Monacan Land". ( 3D models by Miles Rose ) This scale is to proportion any concerns that “this here land ain't big enough for the both of us”, an unfortunate scarcity based mindset amidst the abundance of land that Twin Oaks “owns”. (edited)

1:35 PM

(edited)

1:36 PM

Rather than being treated as isolated individual components located far away from each other with separate unrelated management styles, this design shows tiny houses, vegetable rows curved on contour, raised herb gardens, poultry rotation, native pollinator wildflowers, hoophouse, pond, orchards, all treated as closely interconnected components of the same unified cohesive mini ecosystem design. Outputs from one component are the inputs to the neighboring component. Systems which require more human attention are located closer to dwellings compared to more passive systems. This is a holistic design science, informed by Systems Ecology, Permaculture, and Afro-Indigenous land management practices.

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Poultry + gardens are an interconnected labor saving rotation system where chickens prepare upcoming garden beds by tilling, weed removal, and fertilization, and are in turn fed by garden scraps tossed in from next to their portable enclosure. This is a soil building machine which will slowly march across the area, helping to mitigate the thin topsoil currently at that location, building depth, organic matter, and compost over time.

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Yurts, A frames, and other small inexpensive unobtrusive shelters are nestled into a productive landscape of fruit trees and raised beds filled with kitchen herbs and salad greens, all accessibly located just steps away from where it will be eaten.

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Access to direct sunshine is needed for hoop houses, vegetable gardens, and solar panels. This is why hugging along the southern border of The Monacan Land would be the ideal location for this design, since the neighbor's property immediately south has been clearcut, allowing lots of southern sunshine to pour into this area.

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This 14’ x 14’ cabin has all of the comforts of home on a small footprint, designed using simple methods and inexpensive materials. Features a kitchenette, bathroom, dining room, entertainment area, and retractable loft ladder to the bedroom.

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A small area can produce high yields if designed in 3 dimensions, inspired by the multiple layers of growth in a forest. (Image source Chelsea Green Publishing)

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Raised vegetable beds curved to match the natural contours of the hillside serve multiple functions. When it rains, they slow, spread, and sink water, preventing erosion and flooding, while reducing irrigation needs. They make hillside agriculture feasible, which expands the available possible site locations. (Image source: peace corps)

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Frequently Asked Questions: QUESTION: Would this remove land from existing uses or interfere with forestry work? ANSWER: The intent is to use a very small, clearly defined portion of currently underutilized land while maintaining surrounding natural forest integrity. The design emphasizes compactness and clear boundaries rather than sprawl, and is meant to coexist with ongoing Forestry and land stewardship practices rather than disrupt them. QUESTION: Would this affect the experience of quiet, privacy, or solitude for hikers/campers? ANSWER: Earthly Wilds is intentionally designed to be visually unobtrusive, and integrated into existing landscape features. The goal is to preserve the sense of quiet, peaceful solitude and immersion in nature that current hikers and campers value, while using only a small, defined area of the land. QUESTION: Are these structures temporary or permanent? ANSWER: Both. Some shelters are lightweight and flexible, while others are small, code compliant cabins designed for long term use. This mix allows adaptability over time without large scale or visually dominant construction. QUESTION: How would this impact the surrounding environment? ANSWER: The design emphasizes soil regeneration, water retention, Native pollinator wildflowers, erosion prevention, and biodiversity. Techniques such as raised beds on contour, tree based systems, and minimal ground disturbance are intended to improve land health over time rather than degrade it.

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Has Ret directly had a meeting with Forestry yet ?

jendev_

Has Ret directly had a meeting with Forestry yet ?

There's an open community meeting about this scheduled for feb 25th, anyone is welcome to join

Happy (in)Validation Day, Twin Oaks. Y'all really going mask off multiple times in one day!

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6:40 PM

And also, happy Black History Month, Twin Oaks

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People should be allowed to express concerns, or even oppositions, it’s a conversation.

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Miles

Happy (in)Validation Day, Twin Oaks. Y'all really going mask off multiple times in one day!

I realize it's incredibly frustrating to meet with yet more obstacles in this process. But I think this could ultimately lead to a more positive relationship between TO and Earthly Wilds. It's clear that some folks still don't understand the proposal (which I really think is well thought out and fair, and fully support). Letting folks air their doubts, and meeting them with clear and reassuring information, will ultimately mean a more supportive stance from Twin Oaks toward Earthly Wilds in the long run. What you're doing is huge and unprecedented, and it's well known that long-term Oakers don't like change; it would be weird if some folks here didn't feel unsettled by it. That doesn't mean it's not going to work.

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Love the name-calling on Ajack's part, classy and helpful

I can't go to the Wed meeting. I am hoping to hear tho what the process will be for the community to make a decision.

9:01 AM

I think we're all feeling a bit ragged right now.

9:03 AM

If we can have a civil dialogue we can come to an agreement. I am hoping the PTM and Planners can step up.

Lindsey

I realize it's incredibly frustrating to meet with yet more obstacles in this process. But I think this could ultimately lead to a more positive relationship between TO and Earthly Wilds. It's clear that some folks still don't understand the proposal (which I really think is well thought out and fair, and fully support). Letting folks air their doubts, and meeting them with clear and reassuring information, will ultimately mean a more supportive stance from Twin Oaks toward Earthly Wilds in the long run. What you're doing is huge and unprecedented, and it's well known that long-term Oakers don't like change; it would be weird if some folks here didn't feel unsettled by it. That doesn't mean it's not going to work.

What you said at the end reminds me of this

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Cecilrose

What you said at the end reminds me of this

or like Quanta said at the presentation at Communities Conference, "If people aren't saying no, you're not asking for enough"

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Lindsey

or like Quanta said at the presentation at Communities Conference, "If people aren't saying no, you're not asking for enough"

Happy black history month

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Lindsey

or like Quanta said at the presentation at Communities Conference, "If people aren't saying no, you're not asking for enough"

I thought it was, "No means no," no?

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two-two-five

Love the name-calling on Ajack's part, classy and helpful

Yeah, but no one said that here in 2020 when REAL Team (mostly one non-member claiming to speak for BLM) started it. You may not have been here then, but I will never forget that one.

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Miles

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Yeah, not so unlike how you never forget yours either, yeah? (edited)

Miles

There's an open community meeting about this scheduled for feb 25th, anyone is welcome to join

I think it's important for people who are making large proposals to talk to the relevant teams who are going to be impacted by said proposals. The entire community doesn't need to sit through a conversation between you guys and forestry, and reject the framework that it's on forestry to show up to a community meeting in order to have the conversation about your propsal. I'm curious why this hasn't happened, and am not surprised Carol is frustrated.

The entire community doesn't have to show up, only those who are actually interested. Those who don't care can pass. Discussions take place publicly for accountability reasons

Btw there was a convo about this between someone else on ret and forestry last October

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jendev_

People should be allowed to express concerns, or even oppositions, it’s a conversation.

Yes, and that includes being able to criticize racially tinted patterns and double standards without the conversation being shut down. I don’t think anyone would say Ajack’s comment that “RET is greedy” doesn’t rely on existing racial power structures, would they?

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I don't think anyone actually got shut down, though I've seen folx here before feel shut down and quit taking part in the conversation, sometimes because it becomes hard, sometimes because it doesn't go their way. I think the back and forths about what's allowed, what's included, what's remembered, what's called out and when or by whom are all part of the conversation, and we could use more of it. I hope we stop letting "facilitators" and "vibe watchers" shut down conversations because it gets a bit intense, or goes a little off topic, or even if there's just no agreement. Talking about differences is just as useful as about what we have in common.

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Community meeting postponed until further notice.

What if we had a group walk in Monaccan Woods? Would that help?

What would help would be for the vitriolic circle jerk on Carrol's paper to take a turn for the civil

two-two-five

What would help would be for the vitriolic circle jerk on Carrol's paper to take a turn for the civil

Ok, but we can't tell people to shut up, lol. Usually people do better in open communication in person. The OnI is notoriously combative. For some unknown reason, people are at their worst when they're... well, writing. Lol.

5:09 PM

But I hear you saying no? No walk?

5:10 PM

If we're trying to change hearts and minds, we need to meet each other's hearts and minds.

5:11 PM

I get the frustration. Sometimes when people are out in the open, outside, doing something physical like walking together... people's minds and hearts are open more.

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5:11 PM

At least that's been my experience.

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Anyway, I'm happy to walk with anyone in Monaccan Woods and talk about Earthly Wilds. I'm good at listening and reflecting. If that helps, if it sounds like a good idea, lmk.

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I think an in person conversation would be best. Im dissapointed this meeting is being canceled.

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Mythical Beast (Kelpie)

Ok, but we can't tell people to shut up, lol. Usually people do better in open communication in person. The OnI is notoriously combative. For some unknown reason, people are at their worst when they're... well, writing. Lol.

Maybe the point isn't to change others' hearts and minds. After all, no one can ever get everyone (or even just anyone) else to agree with them completely. Maybe the point is to just live with others who not only look ("alien/other") different from you but think (minds) and feel (hearts) different from you, too. There will always be more of "them" than you can even try to bring around to your way of thinking, so maybe instead just accept them as they are. I think it was one of my favorite SF writers who said something like that the main lesson from SF is that there are others who think as well or better than you ("us") but different. I mean, what does living with diversity even mean, after all?

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two-two-five

What would help would be for the vitriolic circle jerk on Carrol's paper to take a turn for the civil

I just read the new comments on that paper tonight and didn't find it exactly vitriolic. There was one word in one person's comment that you called out here, and then I tried to speak to the double standard between how you did that and how your predecessor allies treated me previously, and then I was called out for that here, and then I responded to that here. I don't think anyone said anything cruel or bitter or was shut down. Maybe some folx find any and all disagreement unacceptable and may not want to respond to or have a conversation with anyone with a different heart and mind than themselves. Everyone is free to do that, but it's not the same thing as being shut down.

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Jessie

I think an in person conversation would be best. Im dissapointed this meeting is being canceled.

Me too.

Harlock Twin Oaks

Maybe the point isn't to change others' hearts and minds. After all, no one can ever get everyone (or even just anyone) else to agree with them completely. Maybe the point is to just live with others who not only look ("alien/other") different from you but think (minds) and feel (hearts) different from you, too. There will always be more of "them" than you can even try to bring around to your way of thinking, so maybe instead just accept them as they are. I think it was one of my favorite SF writers who said something like that the main lesson from SF is that there are others who think as well or better than you ("us") but different. I mean, what does living with diversity even mean, after all?

I meant about convincing people about Eathly Wilds. Or making a compromise.

1:32 AM

Like... TO isn't willing to give Earthly Wilds 60 acres but maybe 10. I dunno, I just made that up.

1:32 AM

I have no idea what TO is willing to do.

I think we all do not want to tolerate intolerance. I think that people often react insecurely and with flat denial when informed that they are being ignorant, but it’s important to resist that feeling of being attacked and instead become quizzical. Instead, seek to understand why there is a misunderstanding or miscommunication. If you empathize with the person you’re talking to, you can see where they’re coming from without taking on that burden of feeling attacked.

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Mythical Beast (Kelpie)

I meant about convincing people about Eathly Wilds. Or making a compromise.

Yes, I meant about Earthly Wilds. I also have no idea what will happen, what "the community" will do or decide, when or how, but I think it may very well turn out as some sort of compromise (that being a situation where no one gets what they want).

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Mythical Beast (Kelpie)

Like... TO isn't willing to give Earthly Wilds 60 acres but maybe 10. I dunno, I just made that up.

The number is somewhat arbitrary. Why not 80 acres?

1:38 AM

We should ask what is specifically needed, rather than try to debate (edited)

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arlo

The number is somewhat arbitrary. Why not 80 acres?

Aren't we talking about Monoccan? Isn't is 3 parcels of 20 acres each?

arlo

I think we all do not want to tolerate intolerance. I think that people often react insecurely and with flat denial when informed that they are being ignorant, but it’s important to resist that feeling of being attacked and instead become quizzical. Instead, seek to understand why there is a misunderstanding or miscommunication. If you empathize with the person you’re talking to, you can see where they’re coming from without taking on that burden of feeling attacked.

Yes, I agree that those who don't see their own ignorance feel insecure and don't even consider they are wrong. And who is it you think is being intolerant? Who is it that proposed policy to expel those who disagree with their politics? (edited)

Harlock Twin Oaks

Yes, I agree that those who don't see their own ignorance feel insecure and don't even consider they are wrong. And who is it you think is being intolerant? Who is it that proposed policy to expel those who disagree with their politics? (edited)

We agree intolerance cannot be tolerated.

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arlo

We should ask what is specifically needed, rather than try to debate (edited)

It was an example of a theoretical proposal.

1:42 AM

Yes, definitely. What is needed. By a group of BIPOC we don't know who yet.

1:43 AM

Anyway, I gotta try sleeping again. I'm sorry too we aren't having a meeting.

arlo

We agree intolerance cannot be tolerated.

Not sure that we mean the same thing. I can live with your disagreement with me, with you voicing it, on the same terms as I also live with. I don't tolerate silencing my disagreement or forcing me to live their way, just as I don't try to silence you or force you to live my way. Is that what you meant?

I haven't posted to this discord thread, as I was hoping for an IRL discussion at the meeting today. I'm wondering why the meeting was cancelled...I'm a bit bummed as I arranged for extra dinner help so that I would be able to take 4-6 off of the shift to attend. Contrary to what some people may think, I am not opposed to the EW project, but I feel like we-- by 'we' I mean the persuadable mass of Twin Oakers who have not definitively made up their mind-- need more information. I believe that a realistic process for making EW a reality goes like: 1) Statement of intent, 2) Large, somewhat vague proposal, 3) fill in details of project and negotiate said details (which might require compromise on all sides) 4) approve something that everyone can live with, even if no one gets exactly what they wanted.

5:53 AM

I feel like step 3 is the hardest (but really crucual) part, and today's meeting was going to be an important part of that step. I have read the O&I papers, the ones that are currently up and the ones posted in the past, and I feel like they have done an adequate job of covering steps one and two. I understand the reasoning behind a POC-led community and land reparations, and in a vague sense, what EW is asing (demanding?) of Twin Oaks. But I still feel like some fundamental questions are yet to be answered, without which I cannot see us approving any sort of land transfer. I was going to ask these questions at the meeting, but since the meeting has been indefinitely postponed, I guess I'll ask a couple of the most pressing ones here: (edited)

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First is about land. We are discussing the "Monoccan Woods" plot, which (to my understanding) is three 20-acre parcels. Is EW asking that one, two, or all three parcels be put in the land trust? If we're not talking about all three parcels, then specifically which one are we looking at? Miles' permaculture paper seems to suggest that not a lot of land would be needed (at least initially), and previous papers have suggested that under the terms of the land trust, the current uses of that land (forestry, low-impact recreation) would still be permitted. Additionally, are we looking at any alternative parcels of land? Would a piece of Lawson land be acceptable to EW? To the folks (seed growing? Others?) who currently use it? These are the sort of things that would need to be resolved before we could move forward in a substantive way. The second set of fundamental questions is about membership. Who is planning on being part of the founding group at EW? Are there TO members (other than Miles) who would be part of the initial core group to move onto the land if and when the land trust is approved? Would EW members continue to be members of Twin Oaks? I can see a scenario where TO members who intended to move to EW would be granted a certain number of hours for transition (1-2 months? more? less?), with the understanding that at the end of that time their TO membership would lapse. Or a scenario where, after the land trust was approved, a one-time pool of hours would be made available for TO members to 'jump start' EW infrastructure. Or any number of proposals that others more clever than I would propose. But (sorry to sound repetitive), these (and lots more that I won't get into now) are details that would need to be worked out in a spirit of negotiation and compromise before a land transfer is approved. OK sorry for long post, I'm just a bit bummed that we won't be able to talk this over in person later today. (edited)

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EzraWillineezer

First is about land. We are discussing the "Monoccan Woods" plot, which (to my understanding) is three 20-acre parcels. Is EW asking that one, two, or all three parcels be put in the land trust? If we're not talking about all three parcels, then specifically which one are we looking at? Miles' permaculture paper seems to suggest that not a lot of land would be needed (at least initially), and previous papers have suggested that under the terms of the land trust, the current uses of that land (forestry, low-impact recreation) would still be permitted. Additionally, are we looking at any alternative parcels of land? Would a piece of Lawson land be acceptable to EW? To the folks (seed growing? Others?) who currently use it? These are the sort of things that would need to be resolved before we could move forward in a substantive way. The second set of fundamental questions is about membership. Who is planning on being part of the founding group at EW? Are there TO members (other than Miles) who would be part of the initial core group to move onto the land if and when the land trust is approved? Would EW members continue to be members of Twin Oaks? I can see a scenario where TO members who intended to move to EW would be granted a certain number of hours for transition (1-2 months? more? less?), with the understanding that at the end of that time their TO membership would lapse. Or a scenario where, after the land trust was approved, a one-time pool of hours would be made available for TO members to 'jump start' EW infrastructure. Or any number of proposals that others more clever than I would propose. But (sorry to sound repetitive), these (and lots more that I won't get into now) are details that would need to be worked out in a spirit of negotiation and compromise before a land transfer is approved. OK sorry for long post, I'm just a bit bummed that we won't be able to talk this over in person later today. (edited)

Thanks for asking the questions

FWIW I think before people move there, there would have to be a significant building phase. So before the membership question is worked out, there'd need to be some sort of construction labor arrangement? To me this makes more sense than making EW people drop membership and long-term guest while building things.

I suggest those who are in support of Earthly Wilds put these comments on Carrol's paper instead of in the discord. The project has received a lot of public vitriol and no public support. We are tired. Even I as an ally am tired. Step up. Cheers.

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Lindsey

FWIW I think before people move there, there would have to be a significant building phase. So before the membership question is worked out, there'd need to be some sort of construction labor arrangement? To me this makes more sense than making EW people drop membership and long-term guest while building things.

I do not disagree with you about this, Lindsey. Construction of a permanent residence (or residences) would be a significant project, with sizable labor and $ requirements. Currently, it is an open question whether those costs would be borne by Twin Oaks Community, by the founders of EW Community, or divided between the two. If the understanding is that EW founders would continue to be Twin Oaks members, but with the expectation that their labor would be funneled towards building housing/infrastructure at EW, it would require TO budgeting that labor towards "EW support" or a similar area. The broader question of what obligations/expectations TO would have towards EW, in addition to the land transfer (primarily dedicated labor credits and $, and access to Twin Oaks resources more generally) is one that needs to be discussed before an agreement is made. Now that the meeting has been postponed, I'm wondering if the time can be used for drafting a more specific proposal that clearly details the full "ask" from Twin Oaks, in terms of specific land requested, dedicated hours and/or $, and access to other TO resources (also knowing who is part of the potential founding group would be helpful). I know that sounds like a lot, but if people are serious about making this happen, Twin Oaks needs to know specifically what is being requested. (edited)

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EzraWillineezer

I do not disagree with you about this, Lindsey. Construction of a permanent residence (or residences) would be a significant project, with sizable labor and $ requirements. Currently, it is an open question whether those costs would be borne by Twin Oaks Community, by the founders of EW Community, or divided between the two. If the understanding is that EW founders would continue to be Twin Oaks members, but with the expectation that their labor would be funneled towards building housing/infrastructure at EW, it would require TO budgeting that labor towards "EW support" or a similar area. The broader question of what obligations/expectations TO would have towards EW, in addition to the land transfer (primarily dedicated labor credits and $, and access to Twin Oaks resources more generally) is one that needs to be discussed before an agreement is made. Now that the meeting has been postponed, I'm wondering if the time can be used for drafting a more specific proposal that clearly details the full "ask" from Twin Oaks, in terms of specific land requested, dedicated hours and/or $, and access to other TO resources (also knowing who is part of the potential founding group would be helpful). I know that sounds like a lot, but if people are serious about making this happen, Twin Oaks needs to know specifically what is being requested. (edited)

I hope you will or have written something to this effect on the paper.

two-two-five

I suggest those who are in support of Earthly Wilds put these comments on Carrol's paper instead of in the discord. The project has received a lot of public vitriol and no public support. We are tired. Even I as an ally am tired. Step up. Cheers.

I think there is this mindset that is rubbing some people the wrong way (including myself and some of those who commented in agreement on Carols paper) and is ultimately hurting this project. The with us or are against us mindset where you either unconditionally support the project or your seen as vitriolic and racist. The concerns that I have seen brought up on Carols paper and the questions I see Ez asking are all super reasonable questions/ concerns that can be addressed by working WITH those people instead of perceiving them as the enemy. I think overall I have heard nothing but enthusiasm for the prospect of a BIPOC lead community that TO helps start, but I think there are a lot of valid concerns being voiced on exactly how the leadership of this project have been going about it. People should be able to bring up concerns about a HUGE project without fear of being personally attacked and have those concerns be considered. I really agree with Ez that there are a lot of details that still need to be worked out and negotiated and I’m disappointed we didn’t have the opportunity to talk about that more together today. (edited)

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Do you think Ajack’s assertion that “RET is greedy” is not racially charged? How can that concern be addressed by working with Ajack? People need to accept that they are capable of racism, and not view that being brought up as the ultimate offense to their character. If people have fear that they will be perceived as racist, they should examine that feeling, and not just blame POC for making them feel bad. When one is informed that their logic could be based on a fallacy, their response should be curiosity, not defensiveness. If you cross someone’s boundaries in this way, you don’t have the right to tone police them. Yes, there is good faith criticisms and questions about the project, but that isn’t the problem causing pain, and shouldn’t be used as a smokescreen. Look, people do not have the right to be upset about being called racist. One has to just eat it and prove it wrong with actions, not words. The same is true for any bigotry. No one has the right to invalidate and tone police the pain of bigotry.

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The conversation was pretty much shut down when the meeting was cancelled

2

Just saw this, and would like to respond. Arlo, I fear that there are two different conversations going on here, and we're talking past one another on two different tracks. On one track there are the questions: Was what Ajack wrote racist? Is Ajack capable of racism? Am I capable of racism? Is opposition to the Earthly Wilds project (regardless of the stated reasons) inherently racist? What is the correct response to being called racist? These are all worthwhile questions in themselves, and we can debate them, in fact, this Discord channel is a fine place to have this debate. But debating these questions doesn't move Earthly Wilds any closer to becoming a reality. The truth is, Ajack doesn't speak for Twin Oaks any more than you or I do. He is expressing an opinion, and while it's fine (and maybe even accurate) to call it out as a racist opinion, where does that get you? What's the end goal? To isolate Ajack? I feel like he does a pretty good job of that on his own. Let's say that your goal (which I believe it is) is to make EW a reality, to create the conditions under which there can be a real existing community with real people living in it. If that is your goal, then we need to ask an entirely different set of questions. Questions like: Who is interested in being the founding members of this community? What specific parcels of land are being proposed, how many acres, and what are reasonable alternative parcels? What other TO resources (labor, $, etc.) are being requested? There are loads more questions, but these are some of the big ones. If you (or Miles or whoever) is seriously interested in making this happen, then the next step is to write all this down as a concrete proposal. Then have a meeting where the proposal is discussed, that doesn't get cancelled. And understand that there will be debate and disagreement, and it's not just because Twin Oakers are all racist.

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1

The goal of calling out racism is get people to be less racist, right?

2

I don't want to discourage the discussion from continuing here, I think that's potentially useful. However, for those of you who are upset about the meeting being postponed, I'm asking you to consider the larger situation. RET is not a faceless committee, it's a group of communards who have their own shit going on right now. 2 of them just lost their home and are extremely stressed, at least one other person on the team is extremely stressed for other reasons, and one person is on vacation out of state. I think that alone is answer enough for why the meeting was postponed. They are struggling, and demanding them to be clear-headed and process-involved right now is pretty damn heartless.

2

1

I dont think a simple sentence or two explanation for canceling from an entire team is asking that much... (edited)

1

I have something to say.

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Lindsey

I don't want to discourage the discussion from continuing here, I think that's potentially useful. However, for those of you who are upset about the meeting being postponed, I'm asking you to consider the larger situation. RET is not a faceless committee, it's a group of communards who have their own shit going on right now. 2 of them just lost their home and are extremely stressed, at least one other person on the team is extremely stressed for other reasons, and one person is on vacation out of state. I think that alone is answer enough for why the meeting was postponed. They are struggling, and demanding them to be clear-headed and process-involved right now is pretty damn heartless.

Thank you! It's been a hard winter indeed. I am hoping a meeting will be rescheduled.

arlo

Do you think Ajack’s assertion that “RET is greedy” is not racially charged? How can that concern be addressed by working with Ajack? People need to accept that they are capable of racism, and not view that being brought up as the ultimate offense to their character. If people have fear that they will be perceived as racist, they should examine that feeling, and not just blame POC for making them feel bad. When one is informed that their logic could be based on a fallacy, their response should be curiosity, not defensiveness. If you cross someone’s boundaries in this way, you don’t have the right to tone police them. Yes, there is good faith criticisms and questions about the project, but that isn’t the problem causing pain, and shouldn’t be used as a smokescreen. Look, people do not have the right to be upset about being called racist. One has to just eat it and prove it wrong with actions, not words. The same is true for any bigotry. No one has the right to invalidate and tone police the pain of bigotry.

I don't think that calling someone a racist is the same as calling out their racism. It doesn't tend to have that effect, or to make them curious. I think someone calling someone else a racist is also not being curious or having empathy. Insulting someone isn't the same as wanting to have a conversation about racism or wanting to have any conversation at all. Going by lived experience here, it seems more like someone reacting self righteously and wanting to shut the other person down because they don't like what they're hearing. So they're really just expressing their own hatred, their own bigotry. I feel like this conversation has happened before at TO already, but we can have it again.

Trout

I have something to say.

I would be interested in hearing what Trout has to say.

When I think about the legacy we are laying down at this very moment, I think about the clearcut, Blackberry Ridge, and how we could have bought the whole 100 acres for 275k. At the time I asked myself what kind of legacy would we leave if we ignored the opportunity. We only ended up with 15 acres. And I was so bitter about how hard I had to fight for so little that I didn't go up for a year or 2. And when I did all I could see was the land that we didn't buy, and what a profound loss of opportunity had occurred. That land was like a dream and I dreamed of a back to earth, antiracist community there. This was all like 2018 or 19 This is going to be a long comment so I'll break it up.

What happened instead was a guy bought the land, set off 2 wildfires and a bomb, burning down our industrial site. And now, when the vision comes to life, we have no where to put it. Earthly Wilds is like a lot of us right now, looking for a place to call home. We are in a real multicrisis zone, a passage from one world to the next. We are leaving a legacy that future people are going to inhabit, including ourselves and our children. The legacy of The Blackberry Ridge (non) purchase is really hard for me to swallow right now. We had a place ready for this community, we balked, and the universe replied in ways that are still unfolding.

The movement that is embodied by Earthly Wilds is a real thing. It is happening now. It has been happening for years, Twin Oaks, its just for the most part you never got to hear about it because you probably weren't listening.

The multi-crisis zone is a passage fro one world to the next, and I want Earthly Wilds to come through too, and have a place to stay, at least temporarily, like a lot of us now, until more ideal circumstances present themselves. So that said. I have a adjacent proposal for Earthly Wilds' landing. Anybody want to hear it?

3

Keep going trout..

I’d prefer the 20 page manual up front vs bit by bit

2

We can't stop, we've caught the energy. Let's channel that into a hopeful future. How can we lift up ourselves? Grateful for your perspective, Trout.

I propose Twin Oaks make an unconditional peace offering to Earthly Wilds of Blackberry Ridge, 15 acres, as soon as Earthly Wilds becomes a legal entity. Together we will plant a tree, and we will honor the words that we speak around this tree. And after that we will find an additional 25 acres, and a mule, which i assume means "some farm equipment". And from there we will discuss a larger vision, as a matter course. And we will honor the words we speak around the tree we planted as a custom between our communities.

1

We could’ve started with that Wednesday meeting

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Trout

What happened instead was a guy bought the land, set off 2 wildfires and a bomb, burning down our industrial site. And now, when the vision comes to life, we have no where to put it. Earthly Wilds is like a lot of us right now, looking for a place to call home. We are in a real multicrisis zone, a passage from one world to the next. We are leaving a legacy that future people are going to inhabit, including ourselves and our children. The legacy of The Blackberry Ridge (non) purchase is really hard for me to swallow right now. We had a place ready for this community, we balked, and the universe replied in ways that are still unfolding.

That's one perspective

That seems like a very symbolically powerful proposal. I still would like to iron out some pretty important practical details before we could move forward on anything like this. The first question, which (maybe?) someone on the discord can answer, is who-- as in which specific individuals-- are we referring to when we talk about "Earthly Wilds" as an entity? The second question, or set of questions really (especially if we are considering the Blackberry Ridge parcel), would revolve around the ongoing relationship between TO and EW. The Blackberry Ridge parcel has no water, no electricity, and no road access. Would the understanding be that all of these would be provided by/through Twin Oaks? That would involve many details that we would need to work out. I'm not arguing for or against Trout's proposal, or Monoccan woods, or any other specific parcel (although on a practical level, BBR seems like a difficult place to start a community). Mostly I'm trying to bring up the types of questions that need to be addressed before it's realistic to move forward with any concrete proposal. In lieu of a meeting, it might be worthwhile to start a new O&I thread, where we could do some q&a, and start crafting the details of a specific proposal, as I know some folks are against hashing out this sort of thing over Discord. (edited)

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Trout

I propose Twin Oaks make an unconditional peace offering to Earthly Wilds of Blackberry Ridge, 15 acres, as soon as Earthly Wilds becomes a legal entity. Together we will plant a tree, and we will honor the words that we speak around this tree. And after that we will find an additional 25 acres, and a mule, which i assume means "some farm equipment". And from there we will discuss a larger vision, as a matter course. And we will honor the words we speak around the tree we planted as a custom between our communities.

Rowan says, what sort of tree? (he lost his cell phone)

I think a black oak.

1

In order to mitigate the persistent misconceptions and fake news that is still circulating about Earthly Wilds BIPOC Community, anyone who is interested may browse our public archive of posts, all available in one convenient location! https://earthlywilds.com/archives

Earthly Wilds

Archives

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Trout

I think a black oak.

This is Rowan: ooh! I like that. Iron Wood might be good too. I think there's a spring under Black Berry Ridge. Iron Woods need a lot of water but are very strong. They bend. Dont break. But an oak would probably be good too. It would clear under brush so folks could meet under it

EzraWillineezer

I do not disagree with you about this, Lindsey. Construction of a permanent residence (or residences) would be a significant project, with sizable labor and $ requirements. Currently, it is an open question whether those costs would be borne by Twin Oaks Community, by the founders of EW Community, or divided between the two. If the understanding is that EW founders would continue to be Twin Oaks members, but with the expectation that their labor would be funneled towards building housing/infrastructure at EW, it would require TO budgeting that labor towards "EW support" or a similar area. The broader question of what obligations/expectations TO would have towards EW, in addition to the land transfer (primarily dedicated labor credits and $, and access to Twin Oaks resources more generally) is one that needs to be discussed before an agreement is made. Now that the meeting has been postponed, I'm wondering if the time can be used for drafting a more specific proposal that clearly details the full "ask" from Twin Oaks, in terms of specific land requested, dedicated hours and/or $, and access to other TO resources (also knowing who is part of the potential founding group would be helpful). I know that sounds like a lot, but if people are serious about making this happen, Twin Oaks needs to know specifically what is being requested. (edited)

I apologize for the inconvenience of postponing the meeting. The meeting was originally scheduled before my home burnt down around me while I slept in it. It takes time to adjust to something like that. It was inconvenient for all involved. We have never, and will never, ask Twin Oaks Community for money or labor hours. Those are recognized as very scarce rescources for Twin Oaks Community, and that limitation is respected. If Twin Oaks Community ever wishes to donate those rescources, we would gladly accept them (some hours have already been donated) Land is a rescource which Twin Oaks has in vast abundance. Land is the foundation upon which freedom and liberation can be built. Without that, nothing else is possible. Which plot of land in particular is an open question. Everything is an open question at this early stage. Earthly Wilds Community is only at the beginning stages of its birth. You are all midwives in this process. ALL voices must speak freely, openly, and without fear. Nobody will ever be censored. Nothing will ever be confidential.

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Thank you for these further details, Miles. I do have a question since you said EW has never asked for hours: Since there is currently the 400 hour Earthly Wilds budget, did y‘all ask for those hours or did they just get allocated by planners?

Can I ask who this is?

Trout

Can I ask who this is?

it's anna

Anna, I am a little surprised that you don't know the answer to this question, and a little frustrated that we have to answer this again.

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Trout

Anna, I am a little surprised that you don't know the answer to this question, and a little frustrated that we have to answer this again.

Unhelpful answer for the win

1

Not done.

Trout

Anna, I am a little surprised that you don't know the answer to this question, and a little frustrated that we have to answer this again.

I think, to expand on what Jen is saying, is that in order for this project to become a reality, the people involved are going to have to answer a lot of questions. If the response to Anna's question (even if you think it's an unreasonable one) is "why do we have to answer that?!? It is wrong of you to ask that question," then it doesn't bode well for the EW project. I would reccomend adopting a position more along the lines of "people are going to ask questions. Some of them are going to feel annoying to me. Some of them are going to be questions that I feel like we've already answered But since we are the ones making this sizeable request of Twin Oaks, then we will try to answer the questions rather than attacking the questioner." While it's less satisfying than flaming out at the person asking the question, it's more likely to lead to the desired result.

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I'd rather not answer this question after all. I really spoke out of turn there. The question was not for me.

arlo

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I think what Anna is trying to understand is if EW is not asking for hours or $$ from Twin Oaks, where the 400 hour budget came from- if that was created by the planners without being asked or not. It really doesn’t seem like that crazy of a question to ask, and if every single question results in snarky answers, people are going to stop asking questions at all.

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Janey

I think what Anna is trying to understand is if EW is not asking for hours or $$ from Twin Oaks, where the 400 hour budget came from- if that was created by the planners without being asked or not. It really doesn’t seem like that crazy of a question to ask, and if every single question results in snarky answers, people are going to stop asking questions at all.

I didn’t say anything

arlo

I didn’t say anything

I don't know if pointing back at what Miles wrote and highlighting one part with the question too is the same as not saying anything. Maybe it is, or maybe saying it wasn't was another clever way to respond. Okay, I think most people realize that repeating answers, answering in more detail, clarifying something not understood when someone asks are all pretty normal in many conversations. That might even mean that those would be important parts of negotiating for a land donation.

Planners back then told me that RET had asked for hours for the project at a planner meeting. So yeah, I’m gonna ask questions if two perspectives don’t align.

I saw Anna asking questions for clarity instead of pointing fingers and making accusations. That gave folks the opportunity to clarify. Her questions was still met with defensiveness and condescension. I can't see this project getting off the ground if this is how any questions or concerns are going to be treated every step of the way. It's exhausting.

2

Both RET and Planners are teams with turnover. Any person on either team in the past could have said or heard something the others in the present don't know or remember. Even though there are written records, they're also fallible. It doesn't seem wrong to point out a possible discrepancy and ask about it. I mean, isn't that part of the process of political activism, too?

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Trouts newest -

1

jendev_

Trouts newest -

its giving marcel...

Jessie

its giving marcel...

What do you mean?

"I can stay wherever i want, whenever i want, for however long I want, no matter what anyone says in the name of racial justice"

That’s a very broad brush you’re painting with. I wonder what @Kate thinks of your comparison.

But for real, its this exact behavior that makes me not support THE LEADERS of this project, not necessarily the project itself. I like the idea of Earthly Wilds, but the leaders of this community need to have a mutually positive relationship with TO for any chance of success and right now, I have lost almost all trust and respect for the people who I see are the leaders of this project: Miles, seya, trout and arlo, although they arent the only ones who have exbhibited this continuous problematic behavior of dismissing, taunting and discarding ANY concerns or even calrifying questions. This behavior needs to change for any hope of support and success, in my opinion. You cannot start another community on Twin Oaks land when you have a negative relationship with the community because you disrespect everything they say that you might not like. the fact that just simple questions like "why is the meeting postponed?" or "I heard this thing that you said that is not aligning with this thing you are saying, can you clarify?" let alone any concerns about the project are attacked with such dismissive disrespect is not a trait in a successful community leader nor will lead to positive change in TO's racial justice efforts, it will only create more animosity and divisiveness. I wanted to say this in person during the meeting, but since that is inevitably postponed, I will unfortunately have to say it here

I haven’t been on RET for months.

What the fuck is happening? I’m seeing a bunch of white people arguing about how building a poc community is VERY conditional to us. “We will help you IF” Have you seen the political climate right now?! A poc community is needed. This is why I’ve stayed silent but no longer can. Look inward if you’re offended.

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here we go again

Who is currently on RET? It's been unclear to me, since papers are not signed with names, and I don't think notes are always posted when someone steps down. There have been non-members on the team in the past and I don't know if there still are.

Kristina

What the fuck is happening? I’m seeing a bunch of white people arguing about how building a poc community is VERY conditional to us. “We will help you IF” Have you seen the political climate right now?! A poc community is needed. This is why I’ve stayed silent but no longer can. Look inward if you’re offended.

Also: wait for another meeting to be scheduled instead of trying to hash it out on discord. A lot is happening.

Kristina

Also: wait for another meeting to be scheduled instead of trying to hash it out on discord. A lot is happening.

i think this would be easier to do if there was any inkling of when the meeting would be rescheduled. i definitely understand the stress/too much going on thing, but since there have been a bunch of papers posted about the project post-fire, it gave me the impression that the project was entering a fairly active phase. i also had the impression that the organizers desired more community process to happen fairly soon. Miles has posted here as well. so i think those are some reasons the discussion is happening here, but i would prefer a meeting too

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Kristina

Also: wait for another meeting to be scheduled instead of trying to hash it out on discord. A lot is happening.

Kristina, with all due respect I disagree with you here. You say "a lot is happening." Does this mean "a lot is happening in the lives of the people involved with Earthly Wilds, such that the EW project is in a holding pattern until a meeting can be scheduled and there's nothing new to discuss?" In that case, I can see the argument for not discussing the ongoing status of the project until there is a new meeting. Or do you mean "a lot is happening with Earthly Wilds?" If that is the case, then I do believe that we need a forum for discussion, especially since it still will be several weeks at least until we have a community meeting on the topic. Trout's paper makes me think that it is the latter. When a member posts a paper stating "I intend to start this community on Twin Oaks land whether it is approved or not, and I'm not asking permission," and someone else says "let's not discuss this on Discord" and the O&I board has mostly ceased to be a forum for effective communication and there is no word on when there will be a rescheduled meeting, then I feel like it is legitimate to ask what is the proper forum for discussing this. (edited)

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Kristina, you are a breath of fresh air.

8:30 AM

Look I want to say this with love...

But a white person falsely accusing a poc of something (mundane even) in a public RACIAL JUSTICE thread is completely out of line. But that's not what hurts the most. What hurts most is to see a group of white people falling all over each other to prop up the false accusation... of somethong mundane...on a RACIAL JUSTICE thread. I see all of you every day, i love all of you, and I want you to know its a bad show for Twin Oaks.

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Trout

But a white person falsely accusing a poc of something (mundane even) in a public RACIAL JUSTICE thread is completely out of line. But that's not what hurts the most. What hurts most is to see a group of white people falling all over each other to prop up the false accusation... of somethong mundane...on a RACIAL JUSTICE thread. I see all of you every day, i love all of you, and I want you to know its a bad show for Twin Oaks.

Trout, can you expound upon what false accusation is being made?

I dont think you all are realizing the most important thing I said in my message (which I should have emphasized more): this behavior is activly setting back racial justice efforts in this community. Trout, whatever happened to your paper on "taking down walls and building bridges"? because this "I am doing this no matter what people say" is not how to create postive change in the community, it is done through open conversations that center curiosity, honesty, and love. Not villianizing and attacking which create animosity and divisness. I have looked up to people like Saman, Summer, Ira and Cuanta who I feel like truly embodied those positive aspects in discussions about racial justice and they are the ones who I was excited to work with and converse about how to make this place a more racially welcoming space. But unfortaunatly, that is not how I feel with this current group. Instead, i feel terrified to say anything and do not want to engage with RET or any racial justice conversations. Which fucking sucks. And i feel like im not the only one. (edited)

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1

Sadly, I concur with Jessie. It may be "just" a matter of style, but style matters. I totally understand the frustration and impatience and anger and fear. I have some of those emotions also. I want EW to succeed, very much. The effort of code-switching is very real. I wonder if something like a salon would help? A salon with snacks and the topic of bringing Earthly Wilds into a positive spin? I am willing to help host this after March 18. Who might help me with that? I am remembering the great Jesse Jackson who died recently. I take inspiration from his Rainbow Coalition and PUSH. (edited)

1

Can the white people in this Racial Justice channel please stop comparing POC to other POC? Bringing up other POC you like more, in the same sentence as invalidating Miles' communication style, is problematic. POC have the right to communicate in different and beautiful ways, and be heard and respected. Miles has been objective and neutral when they don't even need to be, and it's still not enough. I have heard several comparisons between Miles and Saman. To me, this falls into the 'Model Minority' thought pattern. Please listen more. Talking about this in Kelpie's salon sounds lovely. So much is lost when we talk through text.

P.B. Emma & Rowan

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Once again, i feel dismissed and villainized. I am leaving this discord channel, just like how i got taken off of announcements and discussions and have avoided the O&I. Im done and tired of this. This is how converstions and progress are stopped.

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Em

Can the white people in this Racial Justice channel please stop comparing POC to other POC? Bringing up other POC you like more, in the same sentence as invalidating Miles' communication style, is problematic. POC have the right to communicate in different and beautiful ways, and be heard and respected. Miles has been objective and neutral when they don't even need to be, and it's still not enough. I have heard several comparisons between Miles and Saman. To me, this falls into the 'Model Minority' thought pattern. Please listen more. Talking about this in Kelpie's salon sounds lovely. So much is lost when we talk through text.

P.B. Emma & Rowan

Everyone deserves respect. Miles asked for all voices to speak without fear, and for no one to be censored. You literally just asked Jessie to censor herself. When people ask clarifying questions or share their thoughts, and all they get in response is how they’re being „problematic“, „completely out of line“ etc. that is not going to enable people to speak without fear, or get white people to be less racist. To me, I see a bunch of white people in this channel causing active harm to a BIPoC project at Twin Oaks by shutting others down. It’s a fucking tragedy, to be honest.

It may help to hear that the issues that we're discussing here are ones I've experienced in other groups dedicated to racial justice. We're dealing with some heavy conditioning and history. Giving each other some grace to not do it right may help. Don't let me forget about this salon idea. I'm serious.

To answer the question about where the hours came from, here is my recollection:

2:59 PM

The Earthly Wilds project was first discussed at a community meeting in summer of 2025 and also during the 2025 Communities Conference. The project was very well received and planners invited RET to a planner meeting in September 2025 to discuss what planners could do to help move the project forward. The planner team at the time was Hawina, Zi and Phoebe. Planners wanted to unambiguously support the general idea of starting a BIPOC community on Twin Oaks land, and in recognition of the fact that much work would be needed to be done, including doing community process every step of the way, we asked RET if allocating some hours would be helpful. They said yes and in the end we allocated 200 hours of planner contingency, plus RET transferred 200 hours of underclaimed BIPOC hours into the newly created Earthly Wilds budget. We all thought it would be a good idea to keep track of how many hours were spent on the project, rather than just do this work without labor credits or while using other RET budgets. (edited)

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Hawina

The Earthly Wilds project was first discussed at a community meeting in summer of 2025 and also during the 2025 Communities Conference. The project was very well received and planners invited RET to a planner meeting in September 2025 to discuss what planners could do to help move the project forward. The planner team at the time was Hawina, Zi and Phoebe. Planners wanted to unambiguously support the general idea of starting a BIPOC community on Twin Oaks land, and in recognition of the fact that much work would be needed to be done, including doing community process every step of the way, we asked RET if allocating some hours would be helpful. They said yes and in the end we allocated 200 hours of planner contingency, plus RET transferred 200 hours of underclaimed BIPOC hours into the newly created Earthly Wilds budget. We all thought it would be a good idea to keep track of how many hours were spent on the project, rather than just do this work without labor credits or while using other RET budgets. (edited)

Thank you for answering my question, Hawina

arlo

Click to see attachment 🖼️

jendev_

Click to see attachment 🖼️

not 100% sure what is implied here, but asking to set up a labor budget is not the same thing as asking for hours.

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Lindsey

not 100% sure what is implied here, but asking to set up a labor budget is not the same thing as asking for hours.

Can you explain how that is different? I mean, a labor budget is just an amount of labor hours, so if you ask for a labor budget then how are you not asking for hours? Just like if you ask for an expense account isn't that the same thing as asking for money?

Harlock Twin Oaks

Can you explain how that is different? I mean, a labor budget is just an amount of labor hours, so if you ask for a labor budget then how are you not asking for hours? Just like if you ask for an expense account isn't that the same thing as asking for money?

Sometimes budgets have been created for psc pools. So the budget would start with 0 hours in it, and then members can donate pscs to it. A racial justice budget was set up this way before.

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1

As I wrote earlier, planners offered hours for the Earthly Wilds project at a meeting with RET in September 2025 and that offer was accepted. This is not technically the same as them requesting hours even if that’s what the planner notes state. I am not sure why these semantics matter. Does anyone think that no hours should have been made available? I see racial equity work at Twin Oaks as highly necessary and very emotionally challenging work. Does anyone question whether there is racism at play in our policies, norms and actions? I thought it was a well known fact that BIPOC members face many racially based micro aggressions and additional challenges, and find themselves in more frequent communal trouble than their white fellow members. I am grateful to those members willing to step up and work on racial equity in our community and support the project to start a BIPOC community on Twin Oaks land. Not sure what we’re arguing about on this thread and why.

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Hawina

As I wrote earlier, planners offered hours for the Earthly Wilds project at a meeting with RET in September 2025 and that offer was accepted. This is not technically the same as them requesting hours even if that’s what the planner notes state. I am not sure why these semantics matter. Does anyone think that no hours should have been made available? I see racial equity work at Twin Oaks as highly necessary and very emotionally challenging work. Does anyone question whether there is racism at play in our policies, norms and actions? I thought it was a well known fact that BIPOC members face many racially based micro aggressions and additional challenges, and find themselves in more frequent communal trouble than their white fellow members. I am grateful to those members willing to step up and work on racial equity in our community and support the project to start a BIPOC community on Twin Oaks land. Not sure what we’re arguing about on this thread and why.

I think that 'no hours made available' and '500 hours from planner contingency' is a false dichotomy and i want to push back against that framing

11:27 AM

there are several layers of how this happened that felt a little funky to me, but not enough for me to appeal, so i let it go. i don't feel like i need to get into that aspect of this now, it happened months ago. but at this point, i seriously think we need a community meeting before making more decisions about resources for this project.

Several things have been argued, but mostly about how the conversation itself plays out by the different sides or different persons in the conversation. It feels like the persons claiming to be anti racist are speaking passionately and with conviction but also with hatred for any disagreement or dissent or even sometimes just clarifying questions. It feels like the side claiming to be against racism is tag teaming the conversation. One will say something, but when it's questioned someone else will respond, sometimes not answering the question or giving an answer that doesn't seem true.

Mushka

there are several layers of how this happened that felt a little funky to me, but not enough for me to appeal, so i let it go. i don't feel like i need to get into that aspect of this now, it happened months ago. but at this point, i seriously think we need a community meeting before making more decisions about resources for this project.

I believe it was 200 hours from planner contingency plus 200 under-claimed BIPOC hours being transferred by RET. Initially we discussed making more hours available but changed the total after community push-back. (edited)

Hawina

I believe it was 200 hours from planner contingency plus 200 under-claimed BIPOC hours being transferred by RET. Initially we discussed making more hours available but changed the total after community push-back. (edited)

was that the original planner decision? i thought it was 500 at first but then changed and split between budgets when you received community input not in favor of the 500 PC hours

Yes, correct. Initially planners posted about 500 hours from planner contingency but adjusted to 200 hours from planner contingency into the newly created “Earthly Wilds” budget after community push-back to our paper. In addition, RET transferred 200 hours from one of their other budgets (which had been allocated during budgeting but was underspent). (edited)

Hawina

Yes, correct. Initially planners posted about 500 hours from planner contingency but adjusted to 200 hours from planner contingency into the newly created “Earthly Wilds” budget after community push-back to our paper. In addition, RET transferred 200 hours from one of their other budgets (which had been allocated during budgeting but was underspent). (edited)

ok, thanks for confirming. the initial planner decision was why I used the 500 hours figure. hope that makes sense.

The US, Israel, and Argentina, were the 3 ‘no’ votes at the UN yesterday on a resolution to condemn the transatlantic slavery trade, with the stated reason being that they do not want to pay reparations. (edited)

For accessibility reasons, and for those who weren't able to make it in-person to the community meeting on 4/1/2026, here are the notes from that meeting, publically available on our archive webpage (scroll to the bottom) https://earthlywilds.com/archives For anyone interested in the next community meeting, this will get you up to speed on the current dialogue.

Earthly Wilds